Vexed
12:48 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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All landlords used to get tax relief on mortgage interest costs - this is no longer the case, the government have just made it so that cash buyers of property (MPs etc) have the edge over the little man once again - while simultaneously making sure that the cost of renting will rise sharply over the next few years as landlords compensate for the loss.
Similarly IT contractors being dicked for IR35 - one of the largest organisations that rely on these contractors is the government - independent contractors are considerably cheaper to employ than getting a contractor through a massive umbrella company or systems integrator - probably 50% cheaper on day rate a lot of the time. Now a lot of these contractors have been forced to leave and find employment elsewhere or join an umbrella firm what's the result? Government pays considerably more for the same, contractor gets less dough, but shareholders in big firms (MPs etc) do very nicely out of it. Funny that.
What a bunch of self serving cunts.
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Lee Trundle
12:43 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Me neither, overbyyer.
I don't really have any issue with anyone who has managed to avoid/evade tax.
It's when they cry after being caught that annoys me. Makes them look entitled.
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overbyyer
12:36 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Mike Oxsaw wrote...
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
Tax "relief" on a mortgage is tax avoidance, is it not?
OK, so it was legal back in the day, but were HMRC to now declare it evasion, not avoidance, they could claw back a fair amount from everybody who ever claimed it.
Who was it legal for - your average PAYE bod, or for Ltd Co Landlords to claim back?
I can never remember getting any mortgage tax relief in all the time I had a mortgage whilst employed through PAYE?
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Vexed
12:36 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Trunds I assume Maccy D's is PAYE? Not sure why you're here?
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Jimm
12:28 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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I can add nothing useful here other than, if his name is on their radar, he's probably fucked.
I would also agree with the sentiment that HMRC are a bunch of cowboy wankers who use a dartboard to pick their next victim.
When I was contracting, i paid myself 50% of what i had invoiced and left 50% there for tax, which for the money i was earning seemed a fair amount, sometimes i would get a lump at the end, sometimes not - but in the end, it was too much fucking about so binned it.
My two examples of them being morons are probably the same experiences others have had over and over again.
1) Owed 2k in company tax. Was absolutely hounded over it, right at the same time Apple, and some other Yank firms were blatantly hiding billions owed in tax - i told them to spend more time trying to get cash out of them rather than my 2k...
2) I always paid a lump sum at the end of the year (as per the 50% above).
HMRC phoned me up and said you owe us tax (monthly), why have you not paid it?
I said, OK, how much do I owe?
She said, you need to tell us...
OK, in that case I don't owe you anything...
Well that's not right you owe us money...
How much then?...
Well we don't know.
In that case, i still owe you nothing and then hung up.
It seems to be that you have to a certificate in stupidity or obtuseness to work there.
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Mike Oxsaw
12:26 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Tax "relief" on a mortgage is tax avoidance, is it not?
OK, so it was legal back in the day, but were HMRC to now declare it evasion, not avoidance, they could claw back a fair amount from everybody who ever claimed it.
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Lee Trundle
12:19 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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If you avoid something, then don't cry when it catches up with you.
Take it like a man and pay up.
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Mike Oxsaw
12:16 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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I've no time for people who EVADE tax they should be paying, but avoiding tax is simply using HMRC rules to one's best personal benefit; you are not your brother's keeper so you can't use the argument that nobody else is/can be doing it as a reason to not do it yourself.
If the HMRC's own rules allow it, then people need to get the rules changed if they don't like them, not let Auntie Jealous rule their lives.
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Northern Sold
12:13 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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https://taxdisputes.co.uk/2021/05/hmrcs-change-in-approach-on-tax-avoidance-means-based-settlements/
How to identify a Tax Avoidance scheme
It sounds too good to be true: Some schemes promise to lower your tax bill for little or no real cost. They will say you do not have to do much more than pay the scheme promoter and sign some papers.
Pay in the form of loans: Some schemes designed for contractors involve giving you some or all of your payment in the form of a loan that you’re not expected to pay back. It is diverted through a chain of companies, trusts or partnerships and you’ll be told this is to save you tax.
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overbyyer
12:07 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Crassus wrote...
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
dax
Good point well made
And let’s hope there’s not old CCTV of you doing 30 in what is now a 20
Fancy a £100k fine?
That analogy doesn't work, the Ltd Co schemers set out deliberately to avoid tax, and have knowingly used schemes that require annual accounts to declare honestly and accurately.
Your analogy is akin to people paying tax via conformed PAYE rates suddenly being asked to pay backdated tax debt if the PAYE rates of tax changed.
I bet everyone knows someone who has gone sole trader Ltd Co, one employee who double as a director, possible appointing the Mrs as a co-Director and as a ghost employee (paid by the company but not actually working). They grasp for claimable receipts for everything they buy.
I know one who has claimed the cost of a summer house as it was declared as a dedicated office space and he also regularly claims for flights to his place in Spain as he sometimes answers some emails whilst on holiday there.
Yet he also has a son who has had chronic illness from birth who has received constant and priority treatment from the NHS.
Moral to the story is pay your way or fuck off.
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Mike Oxsaw
12:05 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Is there any reason why you don't know the difference between avoiding and evading tax?
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Lee Trundle
11:58 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Is there any other reason why you'd enter a loan scheme other than avoiding tax?
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Mike Oxsaw
11:54 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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"HMRC has never approved these schemes and has always said they don’t work."
So, how come they didn't kill them stone dead at birth? They must have had as a good reason to go after them then as they do now, surely.
Had they done so, all this money would already be in their sky (i.e. frittered away by the government) and they wouldn't have to chase it today.
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Northern Sold
11:52 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes.
Benjamin Franklin
... and that includes people who tried to evade with dodgy loan back door payments... sell one of your cars...
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Crassus
11:47 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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dax
Good point well made
And let’s hope there’s not old CCTV of you doing 30 in what is now a 20
Fancy a £100k fine?
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dax47988
11:43 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Pay your taxes, and if you don't and get caught don't fucking cry about it
Bunch of crying women on this site these days
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Moncurs Putting Iron
11:40 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Therefore my advice is don't lend your mate any money and dont expect him to get his round in,
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Moncurs Putting Iron
11:39 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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The Gospel according to HMRC
Loan schemes – the facts
Loan schemes - otherwise known as ‘disguised remuneration’ schemes - are used to avoid paying Income Tax and National Insurance.
HMRC has never approved these schemes and has always said they don’t work.
The loan charge works by adding together all outstanding loans and taxing them as income in one year. The result is that you’re likely to pay tax at higher rates than you would have at the time you were paid in loans. If you settle your tax affairs before the loan charge arises you will pay tax at the rates for the years you received the loans.
The loan charge policy is expected to protect £3.2 billion, which can be used to support our public services.
An estimated 50,000 people have used a loan scheme that will be affected by the loan charge. Most of them work in the ‘business services’ industry – this includes jobs like IT consultants, financial advisers and management consultants.
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Moncurs Putting Iron
11:37 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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People who use these schemes have their salary paid in loans, instead of being paid in the usual way.
Normally, when you're given a loan, you have to pay it back, often with interest added.
But these loans are paid to people in such a way that means it's unlikely that they'll ever have to be repaid. In other words, the person receiving money from a loan scheme gets to keep it all. And, they don't pay any tax on this money, even though it's clearly income.
It's highly unusual to receive your salary in loans and is clearly a method used to avoid paying tax.
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Moncurs Putting Iron
11:32 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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Vexed,
True that.
Encouraged people to gig, realised that many were working outside IR35, immediately put the squeeze on Public services to do so many assessments of roles and punish them if they get it wrong.
They played it safe and made 'everyone in' resulted in a mass migration to private or Umbrella. (Those who rushed to Umbrella often looked at the end figure, and were told 'not to worry' when asked about the standing with HMRC, I know I was in that position)
In the end I saw the direction of travel and went back to full time employment.
Is the loan element referring to the loans being given out during COVID?
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Vexed
11:20 Wed Feb 23
Re: Loan Charge HMRC
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It's also rarely spoken about how far reaching the powers of HMRC are. They have accesses not far short of those the intelligence services have. If they feel they've got a reason they can delve into your entire life, even hack you if they want. Talk about an abuse of power. But no, people want to complain about MI5 having these accesses while they try to stop cunts blowing us all up! HMRC just keep on abusing.
In case you havent noticed i have had a couple of run ins with these cunts previously. Actually the people I have spoken to have been largely quite nice but as an entity they are fucking disgusting. I dont know what sort of cunt could bring themselves to work for them to be honest.
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